Reclaiming the Darkness

Greg Manning in conversation with Kelly Shivani Rose

Kelly	Does that does all of that make sense.
Greg	And it really was I had I had a very similar vision in some deep shamanic work. Yeah. That if you go out far enough you end up.
Kelly	In back in.
Greg	And also with time, if you go forwards phone off you end up back. Yeah. And this cyclicals and there's something very empowering in that because it's like it's almost like with the whole opponent which is also this way of that Doctor Lane was able to heal other people without meeting them by doing the work inside on himself. And that's a great empowerment that by doing inner work, we help everybody and everything all the time.
Greg	And that's the place which is like when we look out at the world and we feel disempowered, which is an amazing thing. And so I really relate to that. That sense of expanded ness that happens in this, in going within. Another real beautiful distinction in the yin and yang as well. There's something in the yang being this seeing and understanding and the and there's something around beliefs that are in there.
Greg	But in the feminine, it's much more about experiencing and knowing. And there's something the alternative to a belief is in faith and is one thing reading in a book that if you go far enough out, you end up in, and if you go far enough forward, you end up back. Yeah, but if you read it in a book, then it doesn't.
Greg	You know, your beliefs are the internal beliefs held in the subconscious are actually more important when you meet that moment of death, you know that what you actually believe or fear underneath is there. But when you have an experience of it, then it's this face which is not something that is, is, negotiable, you know? And nobody else's belief can really knock your face.
Greg	And it doesn't matter what you believe, because that faith inside is what you carry and what affects your actions and how you do what you do, and the ability to ultimately drop into peace and be able to witness the dark and the light of all of creation and these swings. And there's something in that experiencing it which is so deep, just dropped somewhere else.
Greg	Yeah.
Kelly	Yeah, absolutely. And I think, I think what you've touched on there is this because I think both of us really value the somatic therapy side of what we do. So and for me that is the the going into the body and, and embodying. And in a way, you could say that that is going into the darkness because you're going into the felt sense and the sensation.
Kelly	So you so we could talk about our pain and we can talk about our belief systems, and we can have that from our minds, and we can try and understand what happened to us as children with our minds. But unless we really drop into the sensation of what it was to experience that trauma and to allow ourselves to process it, and it comes back to what we're talking about earlier on about the body's way of healing.
Kelly	And it already knows what to do. Our bodies already know how to recover from a trauma, but because our in our conditioning, our minds say, no, you can't do it. You mustn't cry, you mustn't scream, you mustn't rage, you mustn't shake. If you, you know all of these names that we've been called when we were children, and we fell over and we were shaking and we were like in distress, all of that just took it all back up to our minds and it separated it back out.
Kelly	So one of the things that I do is I, I help people to return to that moment or that time where really they deserve to be looked after and held and loved through that trauma, to allow their bodies to do this natural recovery. So we can talk about our traumas and we can talk about our beliefs, which we do a bit of.
Kelly	When I do the two day immersions, we do a bit of talking because I like to work on a mental level emotional, emotional, physical and spiritual. I think that's a good holistic way. And so we do talk about that. But then it's combined with dropping into the sensations in the body. And I do part of what I do is a breath work, body work journey over almost an hour with music, and we titrate between going into the pain and resting, going into the pain and resting, speeding up the breathing, bringing it back down.
Kelly	And it really helps people with no words. And it really helps people to really. And it's blindfold dropping into the pain and really feeling and connecting with that part that just needs to rage and just needs to cry and grieve and release what is being held in the body. And that is darkness. And that is the feeling in the senses and the sensations.
Kelly	But coming back out of that is what brings us the relief, so we can talk about it in our minds. But dropping into the body. And I feel like that's when the soul can really drop in, because it feels like this body is a safe place to reside. Because we've gone into that and cleared and released, made space for our soul.
Kelly	Our spirit depends on what wording you use for and and. Yeah.
Greg	And I recognize oh, I think I recognize in you because I recognize it in me. There's a, there's lots of really intuitive and incredible practices that work really well together. And as we work with them ourselves, then we learn to lead, to combine. There's an intuitive healing sense in this. Obviously, it's more difficult when it's not 1 to 1 with a group.
Greg	But there is this because we've walked the path, we can nurture people along that path themselves. I'm wondering what your journey was and how you found these things and created the journeys that you have done.
Kelly	Well, that's going to be summing up the last seven years of my life. And so my, my journey to that was seven years ago. I had a little bit of a mini breakdown and it and it again, it I resonate with what you're saying about keeping everything at bay, because for years I didn't realize I was doing it, but I was I had kept everything at bay, and it meant that I would swing from being quite depressed to being quite like, short tempered and reactive.
Kelly	And I got to a point seven years ago where I just was like, I just can't do this anymore. I just can't carry on like this. And then without going into too much detail, I when I was in this kind of despair, I was just like, what am I supposed to do? And I felt this and heard this voice, this calling to go to the White Spring Temple in Glastonbury in particular.
Kelly	And I didn't know why. And I'd always gone to Glastonbury as, like a go to the Crystal shop and buy, buy something or, you know, walk up to the tour. I felt like in something intriguing about Glastonbury, but I didn't really know what. But it was really about doing that, and it was doing that at my moon time, that particular time.
Kelly	And I would go every month and do a solo pilgrimage because I had I have a family, so I was I needed to go and do that by myself, do a solo pilgrimage to the White Spring Temple. And I went in and I didn't know what I was doing there. But just being there, being in that energy and being in the darkness and softening slightly, I just started crying and I just cried and cried and cried.
Kelly	I didn't realize how much grief I was holding onto. And then I just decided I, I just had this realization that that, you know, there's so many things about me that aren't actually me. And I need to start going through these layers. So I started doing yoga and conscious dance and grief tending ceremonies. So there's a grief tending ceremony.
Kelly	I don't know if you've heard of Frances Weller.
Greg	Sure. Of course. Of course. She had a wild edge of sorrow.
Kelly	Yes, exactly, exactly. So I've done a lot of that. And, I just started to realize that once I really go into it in that way, that actually when I come back out, I'm relieved more and more. And I combined that with a training in Mystery school. Path to the One Heart mystery school training. And I've also done Reiki training years ago.
Kelly	And then a couple of years ago, I did hollow somatic bodywork training. Right. So I've done I kind of over the years, I've kind of gone through my own personal journey, what my own path with, with all of this, but as well as doing training. So I've had teachers and guides and then I've had my own kind of journey with it, and then it's just combining it all together.
Kelly	Then I have another beautiful story, but maybe it's a bit long for today about this connection with this sacred spring in Somerset. So that's where I hold the two day immersions, right at this sacred.
Greg	Reflect time. Time is an illusion. Filthy. If it feels in flow. Let's not interrupt with slender spring.
Kelly	Doting,
Greg	Delighting, oh.
Kelly	Doting spring. And so this is when. And so when I. When I started to go into the darkness as well. What the what the what it was combined with was my connection with God and goddess or spirit the divine. And then I had my marriage fell apart and I went into this massive trauma, where my sense of safety was completely taken away.
Kelly	And then I kind of dropped into this faith in, in spirit and felt completely kind of held. It felt like I was falling, and then I was completely held by spirit. And and then I started to these journeys into the into my inner world, into my inner darkness, releasing things. I started to just build up more trust with spirit and more understanding that everything that I'm doing now is a co-creation.
Kelly	So actually, it's not just me, Kelly, the ego that's doing this. It's all guided. And I've learned to listen and I've learned to to take the steps one step at a time and to trust, you know, not focus too much on the goal over there, but actually take each step onto trust. And I so yeah, each step of the way, it just took me to doting spring and the two day immersion that I've created.
Kelly	It was the these massive beech trees that are there. And when you sit in the middle, it is honestly, it's like being charged up. And I sat with those trees one day and I said, how do I show people that they are divine? Because one of the kind of, one of the griefs that I carry is that lots of people are walking around and not realizing how sacred they are and how beautiful they are and how they, you know, this, this, you know, innocent, pure being inside of them that's full of joy and awe and wonder and actually the burdens of life and the traumas of life, of kind of way of weighing on them
Kelly	and holding them down. And because I've been through this process of unburdening myself, and I know what that feels like, and I want to share this with the world. And and I asked the trees, how do I show them that they're divine? And I went back and visited. I go and visit and collect water there. And I just kept seeing these visuals and these visualizations of how it was going to be.
Kelly	And then I and then I met a man and had a, had a little, romance. But with him that what it led to was that he was good friends with the people that live up the road from Doting spring. And so I basically I found myself a venue which is just up the road, and it's not a venue that's advertised.
Kelly	It's I don't know, maybe we can can't fit this be. But it's, Yeah, I found myself a nice little space right where I can hold a small.
Greg	Group of friends. And, you.
Kelly	Know, it's not. No. Gosh, no it's not. I wish underground. Underground, I was sorry. Yeah. Underground like that. Yeah. And so. So we do our practices up at the venue, and then we walk down to the spring, and we do ceremony, and then we walk back up and we do more practice. And it's just it's a really beautiful journey.
Kelly	And I have lots of good feedback about it. And, and that's all come about because of me listening to my intuition or the guidance from.
Greg	God finally inspired.
Kelly	To finally inspired and guided. And I do think that our connection with the divine does come from a level of surrendering and letting go of control. So when we do step out of the light and this need to know everything, and this need for it to be a certain way and understand everything, when we can surrender and soften.
Kelly	Actually, I think I found God in those spaces more than does that make sense?
Greg	Totally makes sense. I was in the by in these archetypal two pole system the feminine, the body and the spirit, the masculine. It's like and actually some extent the ego is an expression of the body wanting to survive and procreate. It's this birthing and without wanting to say that females that egotistical or something like this. But there's something in that.
Greg	It blinds us until we sink into it. And there's we. We can't hear the divine voice whilst the ego voice is so loud. And when finally we get to this place where there's more balance between it, then the inspiration comes up and I cup overflows, you know, because we're, we've got this energy coming in and suddenly it becomes service without even realizing.
Greg	It's not like you have to learn how to be in service services, a symptom of healing. Actually, I think internal. And just by going and choosing to honor and listen, I think there's a certain amount of we talk about people talk about spiritual bypassing, but actually most people are mentally bypassing their bodies. And there is this bypassing. So we we listen and this this fears, it's almost always fears the mind because we're surviving.
Greg	And then without surviving, our parents and our family unit and then society and the pressures and we just have to, you know, work hard, look good socially, stay safe so we don't get rejected. And and then we get to a point where it's like, I've created this set of rules, this algorithm, and it's just stopping me from being connected to, you know, so many people are just in, in such a bubble as they walk around in the world.

Greg	And so it, it bulldoze is over. Its them and I don't want to make bad you know, I can see that maybe in this swing there was a need to go into the masculine and all the things and, and this you know and that is swinging back the other way. And it's exactly what's needed. We're coming back because now we, you know, maybe we were too deep in the earth and actually it needed the light.
Greg	And then we're going into the darkness. And it's just there was greater seasons, including the patriarchy and this like, this patriarchal religions and this, which actually in some of the studies allowed us to grow as communities, this, kind of that, that it was seen as the factor that allowed us to get beyond a certain amount of people, because it was this belief that was held that allowed people who didn't know each other to interact and have a have an understanding of each other when they came.
Greg	So all of these things played a role.
Kelly	A common thread to have that religion. It was like a common thread between values, shared.
Greg	Values and.
Kelly	Exactly. Yeah, yeah. It's not about wronging.
Greg	No.
Kelly	No, it's about observing and seeing the impact. And the result of some of that severance is taking us, like you say, it's a pendulum swing that's taken us a bit too far away.
Greg	But we can choose our pendulum swing that bring back the darkness. This is the balance that we can do.
Kelly	This is what we're doing.
Greg	Too much light. Yeah. And if you've got that, the people who are really cool to darkness quite often are just like, it's just, just want this to all quieten down and just this is darkness deficiency, this kind of craving, this like, like a vitamin or something. It's like, you know, you you crave certain foods when you're deficient in a nutrient, but some part of us craves to just go and properly get winter or get the get the rest period and the moon cycle, or it's like, I've got catch up, I've got like, yes, ten years moon cyclist that I've not been able to rest on, and.
Kelly	I've done a lot of.
Greg	That moon cave to go into, just like, yeah, oh.
Kelly	Yeah.
Greg	Thank God. It's all just shut up. Yeah. Shut up.
Kelly	Yes. Right down. And it's like I see it as, like the day as well between day and night. So we we go out in the morning and we go to work and we do our, we produce and we do our actions and we do our things. And then we come back home and we rest. And it feels like the last 2000 years, it's like we've all been working.
Greg	Yes.
Kelly	You know, and it's like, and it's great because look at what we have. We do have so many incredible things that that, you know, I don't don't want to take that for granted, but it feels like, yeah, we've done all this work. And now actually, maybe it's time to balance it with the coming home and resting and going into the darkness and allowing ourselves to be rejuvenated and then starting that cycle again.
Kelly	Because how much could how much more could we create as humans if we allowed ourselves to come in and to release what isn't serving us, and then to reclaim something that is there, and this piece of gold that's just waiting to be discovered and to be brought back out. So, yeah, I do think that there's this swing back to nature now, and I feel like there could be this beautiful way of living that combines technology and nature and, you know, embracing both and embracing the individual with the community.
Kelly	And this yin yang, I feel like actually, maybe we're coming to this sort of place where we can be in balance and be complementing each other. The yin and yang can be merging and complementing rather than competing and contradicting, because I see a bit of that that has gone on as well. Like this. What's better? Logical intuition. You know what's above and what's below.
Kelly	And it's like, actually, it's it's not about that. It's about this beautiful dance and.
Greg	Interface balance, the divine union in this way.
Kelly	Exactly.
Greg	Yeah.
Kelly	Yeah, yeah.
Greg	I see something else as well. I see like you're talking about working for 2000 years, but I think the common dream of the ancestors is because we're in survival mode is like the dream is you have children, and it's just like, I want you to have a safe space so you can heal. Yeah. And it's like, finally, we're in a state of humanity now where we're getting an opportunity to stop and go in where there's the abundance, there's the safety, and we've created this space.
Greg	And this is I remember one comic, I think it was Doug Stanhope saying, you know, surely the end aim of each society shouldn't be 100% in employment. It should be 0%. You know, this idea that we can just go into our creativity, but within that safety that finally we are the generations that built upon the dreams and the hard work of all of the ancestors, so that we can go inside and do all of the healing for all of the generations coming.
Kelly	In, what they couldn't do.
Greg	All we carry from all of the beliefs and all of the things that are lodged inside our DNA and in our family structures, and in the things we were told when we were young and we passed on and finally were at the stage where we can go, not just in our lives, all of the all of the trauma from our lives, but back through the generations.
Greg	And there's something now is the time for the darkness to stop and just to let our bodies just shake and breathe it all out. And we connect and go, oh, wow.
Kelly	Yeah.
Greg	Why am I not noticed this amazing world before? What a creation. Well done mama, well done. Exactly what incredible beauty. Yeah, that's here in the hearts and souls of each and every, every human being. And all of all of it just mind blowing. Like.
Kelly	Yeah, yeah. Yes it is. Yes.
Greg	Maybe that's good to end on. I don't know if you want to say anything else you want to say.
Kelly	Well, I was just thinking about asking you about the because we've talked about the kind of inner darkness, but the I'd love to hear about some of the experiences that the people that come to your retreats, that have that, that, that actually have this outer darkness and this ability to be able to actually open your eyes in the darkness.
Kelly	Because there's one thing about being able to close our eyes and being able to go inside, but actually to be able to open your eyes and be surrounded by darkness. And what impact that has on people.
Greg	Yes. Well, people in the darkness, they say they see the same things when the eyes are open and their eyes are closed. But when the eyes are closed, your attention comes in. When your eyes are open, the your attention comes out. And actually, it's a really good analogy for the fact that we think that we can see something other than ourselves outside of us.
Greg	We can't in other people. If you spot it, you've got it. Even if it's a seed of it. The fact that we can recognize the good or the bad in anybody or anything else means that the only way we can relate to it is inside of us. So there's something in the mirror that happens in this way that people are much more connected.
Greg	Or we hope, because it says, space for self-healing. Some people at different stages of this shadow, understanding and realization of their relationship to the world around them. People come at different stages, but something else happens in the in the physicality of it. Something happens when your light isn't, your skin isn't getting light as well, right?
Kelly	Okay.